Thread: Second try at honing...seeking opinions/suggestions...

Too late, you’re in the water… swim.

OK, here's an update of where I'm at with setting the bevel. Getting closer, but still have a ways to go...

Process:
I did many sets of 20 circles, each way, after first lapping the stone. I'd check every 2-3 sets to see how the edge was doing. First with some pressure, and then later, with light pressure, and then no pressure at all. I did some heel forward strokes next.

Checking:
I inked the blade and did one stroke on each side. On the right side, as looking at the blade, there was about a 0.3cm region at the very heel that had ink. On the left side, there was about 1.5cm region from the toe, with ink.

I did more heel forward strokes and put my finger on the toe, for strokes coming toward me (where there was no ink). Did lighter and lighter pressure, and added more water as I lightened pressure in later strokes. Probably did around a 100 (each direction, alternating, obviously).

Here are pictures of the toe (the side where it gets narrower and then widens back out), the bevel (some shadows, I don't see a double bevel anywhere), the edge from toe to heel.



Bevel width:
From the edge, on the left there is a gradual increase in width from toe to heel. On the right side, it is pretty much straight, except around 2.5cm from the toe, where it is a bit narrower. In general, it is about 1mm wide.

Bevel:
It looks very good at the heel, and I can feel the edge being sharp on my thumb. About a third of the way though, there are some shiny spots and then in the middle and toward the toe, there are regions that are shiny. It it clearly not that sharp on a TPT in that area.


Honing observations:
Could be me (or lack of experience), but is seems like it moves smoother when honing on the right side, going away from my body. It seems to pull a bit, when I go towards me. Maybe it's just me, or my technique.

Arm Hair:
It cuts hairs near the skin, at the heel region, but not in the middle or toe (confirming the TPT results).

Suggestions on how to bring together the bevel on the middle and toe regions?

Do I go back to circles?
Do I apply pressure in certain regions?

Thanks!

Yup, you are getting close, keep doing circles and make sure your tape is good. If the tape gets squishy you can get a double bevel. Even if you do not a big deal it will flatten out.

Stay on the circles until the bevels meet completely, they are looking good and flat and you are close to setting the bevels.

Once they meet fully, no shiny spots, then do heel forward X laps to smooth out and flatten the bevels and get all the stria going in one direction, no diagonal stria. Once that is accomplished then you can move up in grit.

From a full breadknife it can take a lot of laps to cut new bevels, some pressure and or slurry can help. The bevels will smooth out, feel smooth on the stone, as they flatten, that is one of the indications that the bevels are flat, smoothness, if it feel rough it is usually because the bevels are not yet flat, completely.

Keep at it you are almost there, once the bevel is fully set, it is just polishing and will go much quicker.

You can add a little pressure on the heel and toe, doing circles, X laps will straighten the bevel out.

Ok I was getting nowhere fast with my first hone, but then I started another razor in better shape to start with to try out there. WOW things went better. I got the bevel set without any problems and everything was moving along fine but then it kinda stopped. I dont seem to be making any improvement between my 5k and my 8k Naniwa. I am not sure if I need to work more on the 5k or 8k or maybe go back to the 1k and start again? BTW my progression is 1k/3k/5k/8k/12.
As for the original straight I was working on I can now tell from the 2nd that I was not nearly close enough to setting the bevel and will have to work more on the 1k.
Learning, learning, learning its a never ending process

Super progress tonight, IMHO! Here are shots of the edge, and the sides of the bevel and lower magnification:



I'm able to shave arm hair the whole length, except at the very toe. The bevel on the left side (from the edge side) is small, compared to the rest (it looks fine on the right side). I don't see any shiny spots on the edge, but I'm having a hard time seeing a well formed bevel, again right at the very end by the toe. Maybe the last 6mm or so.

I'll do some X strokes tonight to try to straighten out the stria.

Any suggestions about the very tip of the toe? Should I apply pressure on the one side?

Regards,

PCM

When you are honing with circles, it is not uncommon, especially when learning, for the pressure to alternate on the bevel and for it to be a bit uneven. That will straighten out with one directional X strokes, but the spines thickness, straightness and hone wear will dictate, the width and evenness of the bevel. On a vintage razor and especially an abused one the bevels are rarely even but will probably not affect the ability to shave or hold an edge.

Now, just do heel forward X strokes to remove all the horizontal stria, it should not take too many laps to get an even stria on the bevel, then move to your next stone and remove the 1k stria.

Good progress, you are almost there. This is the hardest part for most new honers to achieve, you just have to put in the time and watch the edge. If there is any doubt, joint it and re-set it, it’s downhill from here…

I did a pile of X strokes, with lighter and lighter pressure, and more water as I went along. I checked the each side, and as far as I can tell, all the stria are going the same way (maybe a few at a slightly different direction, but nothing parallel or near it). Low and a few high magnification shots...

Originally Posted by Euclid440

When you are honing with circles, it is not uncommon, especially when learning, for the pressure to alternate on the bevel and for it to be a bit uneven. That will straighten out with one directional X strokes, but the spines thickness, straightness and hone wear will dictate, the width and evenness of the bevel. On a vintage razor and especially an abused one the bevels are rarely even but will probably not affect the ability to shave or hold an edge.

Now, just do heel forward X strokes to remove all the horizontal stria, it should not take too many laps to get an even stria on the bevel, then move to your next stone and remove the 1k stria.

Good progress, you are almost there. This is the hardest part for most new honers to achieve, you just have to put in the time and watch the edge. If there is any doubt, joint it and re-set it, it’s downhill from here…

Check the photos after the X stroke and let me know what you think. When I go up to the 4K/8K/12K do I stick with 2 layers of tape?


Thanks for all the useful advice! You've been a lifesaver!

You can, or you can drop down to one layer and do some more laps on the 1k to re set the angle.

I would just stick to 2 layers as I recall the spine was a bit worn and you have a nice size bevel now. Do some more laps on the 1k to smooth out the stria as much as possible. The more you do now will save you time and frustration in the higher grit stones or having to come back to the 1K. Get it as even as possible.

If you move up and still see deep stria, just go back to the 1k and smoot it out. A lot of times you will see deep stria on the higher grits once the bevel starts to polish out.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

You can, or you can drop down to one layer and do some more laps on the 1k to re set the angle.

I would just stick to 2 layers as I recall the spine was a bit worn and you have a nice size bevel now. Do some more laps on the 1k to smooth out the stria as much as possible. The more you do now will save you time and frustration in the higher grit stones or having to come back to the 1K. Get it as even as possible.

If you move up and still see deep stria, just go back to the 1k and smoot it out. A lot of times you will see deep stria on the higher grits once the bevel starts to polish out.

Great advice. I'll stick with 2 layers, hone a bit more with the 1K trying to get rid of the deep stria, and then go to the 4K.

This is coming along nicely, IMHO.