Thread: Beyond the coticule...or not.

Evening Gentlemen, I am an enthusiast who is finally getting the hang of putting a decent shaving edge on my straights. I am, however, trying to get to that next level of sharpness and it seems to be a bit elusive. My home honed razors are good enough for a nice shave but I am still missing that final crispness I have felt with razors others have honed for me. The razors I hone are finished on a coti. The razors I have sent away to be honed by more experienced honers seem to come back with a keener edge. I have been looking into purchasing a Naniwa 12K synthetic Super Stone. Will a 12K synthetic finish with a finer edge than a coti? Simply put, should I spend the money or do I already have what I need in my coti?

I would answer that and say yes a 12 k naniwas will bump up keenness after coticule. I have done this my self and it does work if your struggling to get that keenness with your coticule.

The shave may feel a little different . What I found works great is the 8 k and then 12 k after a coticule.

It depends on what edge you prefer.

A well done coticule edge can have a bar like feeling, Very smooth, buttery. A feeling of not having a sharp edge at all. Some people strive for this edge and hunt coticule to provide the ultimate in smoothness. Not all coticules are equal in this regard, and it can take a few rocks to find the one.

If you are after keeness then you fall into the other group of honers, who want an edge to feel more like a feather DE blade. The choice of rocks here is different. Naniwa 12K is a good place to start, others might be adding the 20K Suehiro Gokumyo or a well burnished Arkansas after the 12K to take it up even further. Then adding CBN/Diamond compounds on a strop before a final stropping.

Yes , a 12k will take you to the next level.
To move beyond that...a good Escher/ Thurigan, or Translucent or Black Arky.
But what actually brings any edge to its full potential is proper stropping, after honing. I do a progression of different strops, starting with a pasted strop of either CR/Ox, or lead, then three or four different leathers.

To me...the edge stops at the strop. It improves, or is destroyed at this point. It all depends on your abilities.

Try a CR/OX pasted strop after your Coti, u might be surprised how much it improves that edge.

BTW..Coties typically are around 8000 grt. And not all are good finishers, its a hit or miss kind of stone. I've got four or five of them, and only a couple can I shave off of, so I just use them in a natural stone progression.

Hope this helps.

Although some love the smoothness of a Coticule edge, the edge is not keen enough for my tough, fast growing beard. I am a senior citizen with a coarse, white beard.

My first finishing hone was a Naniwa 12K. Although it will produce a keen edge, the edge was not smooth enough for me. I have blue eyes and ruddy skin that will sunburn, windburn, and razor burn quite easily. Achieving an edge keen enough for my tough beard, yet smooth enough for my tender face is a challenge.

In order to get keen, yet smooth edges, I have tried several natural hones. They include a Chinese Guangxi, a Tsushima ocean blue, an Imperia La Roccia, a Greek Vermio, a Yellow Lake (LLyn Melynllyn) Welsh, an unusual Anchor Finishing (Cumberlandite) hone, and a surgical black Arkansas. Any of my stones will improve the keenness of a Coticule edge. My current favorites are the Vermio and Llyn Melynllyn as they produce a keen, smooth edge.

Some day, I hope to try a Escher/Thuringian and a JNat 5+. I also have heard good things about the Suihiro Gokumyo 20K synthetic.

Wow, I was expecting to have opened a can of worms with my original question and, surprisingly, that seems not to be the case. Three for three in agreement. Very cool. Ok, well I know where I need to go from here and that is to find a respectable 12K (or there-abouts) stone. Of course I can scour the web or the bay and the possibilities are limitless. I do, however, understand that natural stones have inherent variabilty within a specific quarry and what may be advertised as a particular grit may, in practice, respond differently. I am open to suggestions for where to look or even PMs on available stones that are cluttering members shelves. Please let me know what you know and if you are interested in selling or trading ( or a combination there of) for vintage straights then PM me. Thanks so much.

Four for four I guess. That last post snuck in while I was typing!

There are many hones over 10K that are on the market. I have one that will polish a plane iron to an amazing level of sharpness, but I am not happy with the shave from it. I also have a Naniwa 12K that produces a very nice edge. Many like the Shapton hones. Stick with known brands or you may wind up with amazing plane irons but not a great shave.

If you like using a coticule and are getting a decent edge off it, you have entered the realm of natural stones. Personally, I don't see the reason to move back to synthetic stones afterwards. I am one of those guys who finds a coticule edge to be very smooth, but not close enough, so I will either use a Welsh purple slate from the UK eBay seller or a red-pasted hanging strop afterwards to up the ante a little bit. 1k/3k Suehiro synth combo > coticule > purple Welsh slate generally gets me there.

I'm quite happy with my coticule edges. Took me a while to get there... I have a Vermio, and a very hard Cretan, and I can improve the keenness of my edges with them, but I don't care for the shave feel with those stones. I'll take the smoothness over the improved keenness anyday.