Thread: Choosing a good Belgian Coticule stone

Hi and welcome. I doubt you'll get a sharper and more polished edge from a coticule over the 12k. If you want sharper get crox, a suehiro 20k or a jnat. If you want the close comfortable edge from a coticule then email Jarrod at the superior shave. He will help you get an idea of what to choose and why and has good prices as well. Good luck finding the edge your looking for

Originally Posted by Gerald Davis

Hello everyone,
I'm looking into purchasing a Belgian Coticule stone. In the process of researching, I've got myselfa little overwhelmed with all of the information that's out on the internet indetermining where and from whom to purchase the stone. I know it's best to geta natural stone as compared to purchasing a stone that was made of chips andpieces off the saw mill and glued together to make a honing stone.
The purpose I'll use the stone is not so much of trying tomake it my one for start to finish honing or trying to set a bevel, it's morefor the later stages of honing in trying to get a sharper and more polished edgeon the razor. I've got the 400/1000, 4000/8000 grit Norton stone and a 12000grit Naniwa stone. I can a decent sharpness to the razor with these stones however,I've heard that Belgian Coticule stonesgives a better edge and polish. I understand that I would have to get a slurrystone with this.
So what I'm asking everyone is recommendations where to finda good quality Belgian Coticule stone. I've seen the stone for sale at Best SharpeningStones and Timber Tools websites. One question is, does paying the extra priceat the Timber Tools compared to the same size stone from the Best SharpeningStones mean I'm getting a better quality honing stone? Or should I get a stonedirectly from Ardennes Cuticule? I'm looking into a 8x3 stone.
Any advice and recommendations would greatly be appreciated.

I've never bought (straight) from ardennes, but I would consider anything that originates at ardennes to be the same across dealers. The reality that I've seen with ardennes stones (and some vintage stones) is that many are just not very fine, and are better suited to use with a linen where the coti never removes the entire edge of a razor already in shaving condition.

That creates a situation where you as the shaver have some time to work the edge up from the coti using a linen, but being careful not to remove the edge itself as you're doing it.

I've had exactly one coticule (out of, maybe 7?) that was a true finisher in the class of other finishers, and I will admit I did sell it because it still was doing what other finishers do. The rest of the cotis I bought, I sold at at a loss. That was a new stone and not ardennes.

Long and short of it, I'd agree with the advice above, if you're looking to buy one stone and you don't want to buy a bunch and keep the best (which is an expensive thing to do), buy something else for now and watch flea markets, etc, for old cotis that show up for a song. If you get an old coti for $10, you don't have to be afraid of oiling it (which can help a coarse coti a little).

Personally, I don't know if ardennes charges more than their retailers do, maybe someone here can confirm. There is or was a belgian blue on ebay that someone claimed ardennes sold to them for $225 because it was "selected". That kind of stuff is a bit spurious to me, but a retailer can charge what a customer will pay.

I haven't seen anything from timbertools (or about them) that would make me want to purchase anything for razors from them.

I want to thank everyone for reading my post and taking their time to share their straight razor honing experiences with me. After reading all of the outstanding and very educational replies, I've decided not to purchase a Belgian Coticule stone. I've decided to take my recently acquired beaten up DOVO I've purchase at a flea market to refine my honing skills with the stones that I have. I might just be holding my tongue wrong, so I'll see if that helps. Thanks again everyone.

Originally Posted by Gerald Davis

I want to thank everyone for reading my post and taking their time to share their straight razor honing experiences with me. After reading all of the outstanding and very educational replies, I've decided not to purchase a Belgian Coticule stone. I've decided to take my recently acquired beaten up DOVO I've purchase at a flea market to refine my honing skills with the stones that I have. I might just be holding my tongue wrong, so I'll see if that helps. Thanks again everyone.

Gerald,

With the stones that you have you can put an exemplary edge on your razor. It just takes practice, perseverance and patience, and, trial and effort, well, like most things in life. Apart from those, no hone/stone or set of them will produce what you're looking for!!

and, you'll get it!! And once you've "got it", then the little nuances of the other media start to make sense and, if possible, a difference! Look forward to hearing of your thoughts and observasations as you progress!!

Regards,

Howard

Originally Posted by DaveW

Long and short of it, I'd agree with the advice above, if you're looking to buy one stone and you don't want to buy a bunch and keep the best (which is an expensive thing to do), buy something else for now and watch flea markets, etc, for old cotis that show up for a song. If you get an old coti for $10, you don't have to be afraid of oiling it (which can help a coarse coti a little).

This is kinda how i look at it now too, even though i am not in need, i still keep an eye on auction sites ect for random little bargains that come up, if i spend $10 or $20 on a stone that i later find is not right for me, then atleast i didnt spend the $225 to find out and i can live with 10 or 20 here and there.

Originally Posted by stev

This is kinda how i look at it now too, even though i am not in need, i still keep an eye on auction sites ect for random little bargains that come up, if i spend $10 or $20 on a stone that i later find is not right for me, then atleast i didnt spend the $225 to find out and i can live with 10 or 20 here and there.

You can get your $10 or $20 back, too.

If one buys a $300 8x3 stone and then has it and doesn't think it's that good, at the very best you'll get back some percentage of your money, but you have to deal with the idea that you're going to give a marginal stone to someone else and they could complain. That makes it all a losing proposition for me, because when a stone isn't very good, I knock a lot of money off. If I got it cheap, then I say just what it is and in one instance I got what I paid back. For a marginal but pretty stone. A dealer bought it from me and flipped it to one of the unwashed buyers out there for three times what I sold it for

Of course, the description of mine that said it was a marginal stone that took a great deal of skill to get a good edge with...that didn't go with it on the dealer's sale.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Welcome to SRP. To begin with, you'll look long and hard to find a better finisher than a Naniwa 12k. Particularly if you are looking at a coticule. This is not to say that they are not out there, but picking one off of the shelf, so to speak, is luck of the draw. Second of all, while a natural combo is desirable from an aesthetic standpoint, it isn't necessarily going to be better, or even as good, as a glued stone.

I have an 8x2 from Ardennes that happens to be a good stone. A La Veinette, other than that, I have vintage stones of unknown mines/veins, and some are better than others. Say that to say, unlike synthetic hones, natural stones are not a predictable quantity, and no vendor can just pull one off a shelf and say 'this' is a finisher, or this is not. OTOH, if you watch the classifieds you may be able to find out from a seller, if one comes up, how it performed. IMHO.

Shaun (Rez) beat me to it, I was typing while he posted ..... great minds and all that.

welcome to SRP!
I couldn't have said it better myself. the nani 12k SS is a nice finisher. natural stones are a romance and you will part with a lot of money trying to find the next level of sharpness/smoothness. Crox is a good suggestion and relatively cheap. the price of natural finishers has just skyrocketed of the the years. but if you are dying for a natural i would recommend a thuringian hone or a zulu grey, they are 40% off now. i picked up a blue thuringian hone off the bay for $75 and it is a little smoother than the Nani SS but ends up around the 10k-11k range. i wish you luck on your adventure

Have just opened a thread to see if anyone has tried this site. coticule.be . Looks like it might be a good one to try. He rates stones from ardennes coticule.

One on eBay, a vintage Belgian Coticule and BBW Combo, big stone 9 x 2 1/8 x 3/4, friend of mine has it listed - it's a BIN - FYI:

Rare Vintage Belgian Coticule AND BBW Combo 9 Inches X 2 1 8 Inches X 3 4 Inch | eBay

I'll say nothing new except I am quite new to a coticule. I got lucky with a very decent 2x6 stone (which is plenty big) from an honest, experienced guy on ebay - talk about beating the odds. It does what he said - covers a decent range for modest bevel repair for the semi-patient to good finshing but I am not tossing my 1000 anytime soon. I might could maybe toss the 4000/8000. It finishes a little better than the 8000 and feels a softer edge on the skin but, compared to your gear, why trade except for the fun of seeing what a interesting range one smelly garnet-laden stone might have to offer?

Now, if you like fluffy brown slurry and the modest miracle of range then have at it knowing it can be a crapshoot without some personal or reliable connection to the seller. Knowing what I know now, a broken or irregular section (bouts) at half the cost would have been fine (but I'm not complaining).