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Thread: HHT failures

  1. #11
    Hones/Honing/Master Barber avatar1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeBerlin View Post
    Personally, I think you should read the text you are talking about before forming an opinion. As far as your personal confusion is concerned, see above.
    There is no "personal confusion" that you mentioned, and I was not trying to belittle the observations that others have made, simply pointing out that there are too many variables that can change the outcome of the test to make it a universally accepted test at this point in time, and too many people, new and experienced get hung up on it.

    It is a personal opinion, just like you have.

    The HHT is NOT universally accurate, and for that matter, the other's probably aren't either. But IMO, the other tests take far less "fiddling" to get it to be valuable.

    Look at #3 under Finer Points in the link you posted and you will understand what I am saying. There are TOO MANY variables that can affect the outcome of the test.

    I'm not saying it doesn't work for some people. If you have the time and want to sit around and measure hair thickness, and only use hairs that have been washed for precisely 3.2 minutes with X shampoo, followed by conditioner Y left on for 1.3 minutes, and massaging it counterclockwise for that time period, then more power to you.

    But look at scientists. They use tried and true tests to prove things, not tests with a dozen different variables that can affect the outcome...they use tests that can be duplicated, with the same results for ANYONE, in ANY lap, ANYWHERE in the world. And until there is a formula/method that can be followed by ANYONE, then talking about the test like it is the end-all, be-all test of cutting ability is not justified IMO. Just my $.02.

    *EDIT* Respectfully, I understand you're a moderator, but your assumptions that someone hasn't read the article (when in fact I had read the article, several times before), and accusing them of being confused is a little rude. You might ask why they have certain opinions rather than trying to belittle them because they don't see the validity in yours.
    Last edited by avatar1999; 10-17-2009 at 10:32 PM.

  2. #12
    Senior Member blabbermouth Joed's Avatar
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    There are many levels of sharp as there are many levels of shave ready. The shave is the final test and the only one that matters unless all you are going to do with the razor is the HHT. The sharpest edge is not always the preferred edge to shave with. It comes down to personal preference.

    For me, I aim to pop arm hairs one at a time at several points along the edge off the lowest grit hone I am using. From there I am just polishing the bevel and refining the edge. I test on arm hairs after each hone. The final test is to get CarrieM to test on her baby fine leg hair. If it shaves them dry, w/o stropping and w/o tugging the blade is ready. At that point it will perform the HHT w/o fail almost every time, w/o stropping. The HHT is entertaining but I don't use it for testing shave ready. As a note, CarrieM prefers her edges straight off the coti, used as a finisher, water only. This produces a sharp edge and smooth shave but is a little short of shaving skin off for skin graphs.

    The final test is the shave. No if, and or buts and is a personal evaluation, not a science.

    Good luck!
    “If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got.” (A. Einstein)

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    Quote Originally Posted by avatar1999 View Post
    *EDIT* Respectfully, I understand you're a moderator, but your assumptions that someone hasn't read the article (when in fact I had read the article, several times before), and accusing them of being confused is a little rude. You might ask why they have certain opinions rather than trying to belittle them because they don't see the validity in yours.
    You said that "at least a note [be] placed next to it stating it is NOT a reliable method of testing a razor". That note is there. The problem is not the text in the Wiki, which is as unambiguous as it gets. The problem is the myriad of contradictory posts in the forum.

    As far as a scientific approach is concerned, I'd like to quote Glen:
    Fun with Verniers calipers and tape - Straight Razor Place Forums
    This is what happens every time somebody tries to nail something down and set it in stone... way to little of razordom fits neatly into a little scientific box, and maybe that has it's own appeal... The romantasium and small mysteries that keep popping up that need solving.....
    As for the rudeness, I'd like to offer my apologies. English is only my fourth language, and I might have read your post in the wrong way.

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    Hones/Honing/Master Barber avatar1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeBerlin View Post
    The problem is not the text in the Wiki, which is as unambiguous as it gets. The problem is the myriad of contradictory posts in the forum.
    I couldn't agree more! I know that down below in the the description of the HHT it says there's lots of variables, etc. but I just thought that maybe if there was a note at the beginning of the HHT section, we might not get all the confusing posts in the forums.

    Obviously something is leading new people to believe that this test is very important, and I just feel that if they didn't put so much emphasis on the one test, then maybe it would save them some confusion and frustration as far as honing is concerned.

    Honing is trying as it is for new people. Just trying to look out for them and their nerves

    Thanks for the apology, I didn't think you did it on purpose, but it just came across like it, as I'm sure mine probably came across wrong to you.

    Prost!
    Last edited by avatar1999; 10-17-2009 at 11:42 PM.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth Joed's Avatar
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again, You really have to know how to shave with a straight razor that was honed properly before you should attempt to hone straight razors. Honing should not be for newbies as most don't know what a sharp edge should test at. Sffone has stated that he has a straight honed by a honemister but the HHT doesn't work for him. This should tell him that the test is not the proper way to evaluate the edge.

    I have read in several threads that newbies are using the HHT to determine shave ready razors. I have also read that several are confused by what is in the WIKI. As far as I am concerned the WIKI can stay as it is but for every person that says the HHT in the WIKI is confusing how many are confused by it or walking away with the wrong understanding w/o mention.

    If the goal of the WIKI is to reduce confusion and act as a guide to all including newbies maybe re-visiting the HHT section would have value. Just my two cents.
    “If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got.” (A. Einstein)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joed View Post
    If the goal of the WIKI is to reduce confusion and act as a guide to all including newbies maybe re-visiting the HHT section would have value. Just my two cents.
    It is most certainly not meant for all including newbies, at least parts of it are not. The honing section is per se not meant for newbies, I'd say. But if you have an idea of how to dis-ambiguise the article, you know where the edit button is. Again, I claim that the problem is not the Wiki article but the contradictory forum posts. I was given the impression that the HHT was a round robin test in the forum before we put the Wiki article together. So much for confusion.

  7. #17
    I shave with a spoon on a stick. Slartibartfast's Avatar
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    Member AFDavis11's Avatar
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    A lot of passion, and about shaving no less, is nothing to ignore. But lets not get too excited.

    My razors often don't pass the HHT. I use chest hair sometimes to check, but rarely, as there is so little point in worrying about it.

    I wonder sometimes, based on the type of hair that passes, whether sometimes the edge just gets too smooth to catch on a hair. Shaves well, but won't catch a single, but dry, hair.

    I could evaluate why people care so much about the HHT but I'm not sure. I think people believe it is the ultimate, final, test, the one they usually can't pass, and the one that is the most clear. Either the razor passes, or doesn't. There isn't much interpretation.

    What bothers me the most about the concern is that how a razor reacts against and to the skin should be much more important than how it reacts to a hanging hair.

    Ultimately, I am certain, that every straight razor in use could be sharper than it currently is, especially mine.

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    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    If I may:


    First look at what Bart wrote he explained exactly what it took for him to develop HIS test he gave newbies a road map not a destination...The problem is everyone wants to get to the end of the trip too fast....To get it all right, you have to take the time to develop your own test that works better than 90% of the time.... My test is nothing like Bart's but we both have taken the time to develop them each in our own ways .. Mine is 99% accurate and I bet Bart's is too....

    The key to this hobby of our's "TAKE YOUR TIME" Smell the lather, Enjoy the shave and the little things that make it up...


    PS: The HHT doesn't mean jack the razor either shaves smoothly or it doesn't... The HHT only tells you that the edge meets in a sharp spot...
    Last edited by gssixgun; 10-18-2009 at 12:10 AM.

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  12. #20
    Just one more lap... FloorPizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joed View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, You really have to know how to shave with a straight razor that was honed properly before you should attempt to hone straight razors. Honing should not be for newbies as most don't know what a sharp edge should test at. Sffone has stated that he has a straight honed by a honemister but the HHT doesn't work for him. This should tell him that the test is not the proper way to evaluate the edge.

    I have read in several threads that newbies are using the HHT to determine shave ready razors. I have also read that several are confused by what is in the WIKI. As far as I am concerned the WIKI can stay as it is but for every person that says the HHT in the WIKI is confusing how many are confused by it or walking away with the wrong understanding w/o mention.

    If the goal of the WIKI is to reduce confusion and act as a guide to all including newbies maybe re-visiting the HHT section would have value. Just my two cents.

    I wonder if he stropped the blade before he tried the test? IMO, most new guys do themselves a terrible dis-service by stropping a blade they just got back from a honemeister. It is soooooo easy for a new guy to dull a blade on a strop, and then that leaves them *really* confused. I think honemeisters should tape the blade shut in the scales with a note that says "do not strop before using me!" before mailing the blade back to the owner.

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