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  1. #1
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    Default Close, but not comfortable

    Hey, all. I have about 14 straight shaves under my belt at this point and I am not making any progress on the comfort of the shave. From the beginning, I have been able to get very close shaves with no nicks or cuts...as I detailed in an earlier thread, I attribute that to my experience with a DE razor. But shaving with a straight still feels like I am s-c-r-a-p-i-n-g the hair off of my face instead of slicing cleanly. The shave is close, even BBS for the most part, but the blade feels very grabby.

    I am using a Kropp blade (one made and ground in Sheffield), and I have had it honed by a honemeister about 12 shaves ago. I have read and reread FAQs, how-tos, and threads, and I think my issue may be one of three things:


    1. Stropping technique. I am using a TM apprentice strop and I have been working very hard to develop a good technique, but as my shaves don't seem to improve it's hard to know if I am getting better at stropping or not. I use very light pressure, I keep my hand still, I turn the blade on the spine...I have tried 30 laps, 50 laps, even 100 laps, nothing seems to make the shave more comfortable.
    2. Blade needs a touch-up on a hone. As I said, I just had the blade honed by a pro, but it is certainly possible that I screwed up the edge with bad stropping between then and now. I don't own a hone yet, but I was thinking about picking up a chinese waterstone and trying to touch up the blade a bit, since stropping alone doesn't seem to be doing the trick.
    3. Bad blade. Kropp blades are generally well regarded here, but I suppose it's possible that I just got a blade that won't hold an edge very well. I don't consider this very likely, but it's a possibility.

    So, to sum up...I've got a grabby blade that I can't seem to get super-sharp, despite recently having it professionally honed. I still get very close shaves from the blade, but I feel a lot of tugging and pulling and I end up with razor burn in spots, which I never got from a DE. Any thoughts as to what I could have done to the edge to dull it, and more importantly, how to get it back? Can a blade be stropped to sharpness with enough laps?

  2. #2
    Member AFDavis11's Avatar
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    I didn't read the whole thread but if your searching for solutions it lies with your point 1, unless you were getting good shaves at the beginning and they have erroded, then point 1 and 2 are suspect. Your blade is probably fine.

    The key to stropping is not thinking its as simple as just moving the blade up and down the strop. Its more complicated than that, sorry to say.

    First, try adding a touch of pressure on the leather. You need to draw out the edge a little. You can spend forever polishing and aligning, but if the edge isn't drawn out to begin with your wasting your time.

    Also, consider a little linen/canvas added to the process of stropping, assuming your linen/canvas isn't really, really rough. If its generally soft and smooth (yet bumpy) you can use a touch of pressure, if not keep in light at first and see how that goes.

    Remember, never allow the strop to sag, keep it taut and tight. Hard, like a board. Think of the strop as a "Sticky Hone".

    So begin by using a touch of pressure, say on linen, not much, just a touch, then move to the leather, again with a touch of pressure, back to linen and again back to leather. Go SLOW, STEADY, EASY, SMOOTH. Make certain you use an X pattern and hit the entire edge with each individual stroke.

    This is drawing out the edge and aligning it along the length of the edge.

    Then, finish with leather using NO pressure. This is polishing the edge that you've drawn out. If your comfortable use a little speed, not much, just a little.

    This should help your situation quite a bit. If not, the blade needs honing.

    Next, use your wrist a little when your shaving. A little rounded motion is the easiest way for a beginner to develop a non-perpendicular stroke, which will help with the pulling sensation.

    Those two techniques are where you should start.

    Good luck, let us know how it goes.

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    awk5 (05-27-2008), Black Beard (05-26-2008), DaveF (05-26-2008), JeffR (03-02-2009), Milton Man (06-02-2008), pdx (05-26-2008), philmckee (06-09-2008), Terje K (05-26-2008)

  4. #3
    . Bill S's Avatar
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    Assuming that the edge is still in undamaged condition, which it probably is, it sounds like you just need a touch up. You could go for a finishing hone like a coticule, shapton, chinesse 12K or a barber hone. A few passes should get you fixed up.

    Another really good alternative would be a pasted paddle or strop. Personally I like a flat bed or a paddle pasted with boron carbide on one surface and chromium oxide on another. If you have more surfaces, as you would on a four sided paddle or a flat bed with extra pads, I would go with .5 and .25 micron diamond.

    I've had good success using both methods for that extra sharpness and smoothness that we all want.

    Alan has pretty well covered the stropping in his response

    Another thought is that your razor needs a little less angle to work at it's best.

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    DaveF (05-26-2008)

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    What really did it for me was that i discovered in some old straight razor tutorial book it said that the heel of the blade should be leading just ever so slightly...and that made a world of difference for me.

    but ofcourse assuming that the edge is not damaged

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    philmckee (06-09-2008)

  8. #5
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    Thanks so much for the prompt and detailed response! I bought an Apprentice strop, so I don't have a linen or canvas component...I should have just gone for the artisan. Sigh.

    I'm going to study your suggestions carefully and work on applying them even without the canvas component. Really appreciate your response, Alan...I was feeling a little lost here and your comments have really given me hope and a direction.

    [edit to add] Whoa, a few more great responses came in while I was typing...thanks, guys. Excellent suggestions, all. I was thinking about a pasted paddle strop...probably the two-sided wide paddle rather than the four-sided one, and I had been researching which pastes I might need if I could only have two...Bill's response answered that for me without even asking!
    Last edited by DaveF; 05-26-2008 at 06:43 PM.

  9. #6
    Member AFDavis11's Avatar
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    You might do just fine without linen/canvas. Just add a touch of pressure and follow my suggestions. Make sure to follow up with the traditional no pressure stropping at the end. Stick with that until the edge fails to get any better no matter what you do with the strop.

    Hone as desired. You'll find your way after a bit of practice.

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  11. #7
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    Alan, after reading and thinking about your post, I went and stropped my razor on the leather with more pressure than I normally use. It felt and sounded quite different...it sounded raspier, and it felt like I was dragging the blade against slightly more friction instead of lightly skating over the top as normal. I did 30 laps with that pressure, and followed it up with another 30 laps with my usual very light pressure to "polish". I'm not due for a shave until tomorrow morning but I tried my clumsy TPT and to my inexperienced thumb it did feel a little "stickier". I'm anxious to see how it shaves tomorrow morning.

  12. #8
    Member AFDavis11's Avatar
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    Yes, exactly. You've got it. Now if only the edge will remain until tomorrow.

    Maybe some light stropping in the A. M. too.

    I'd like you to keep using the TPT to assess the edge. I think you'll find that generally you'll only need a few light passes to polish the edge. The more passes you do in polishing; the faster the edge will dissappear/degrade.
    Last edited by AFDavis11; 05-26-2008 at 08:51 PM.

  13. #9
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    ^ Gosh. I didn't realise that was the case!

    Thanks for posting this bit of information. I'm certain it will be of interest to many.

  14. #10
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    I'm sorry, but you said two things in your post that I have never run across before and I want to make sure I understood you because both have radical implications for my current routine:


    • A stropped edge will not "keep" forever...it sounds like to some extent it's "use it or lose it"?
    • Over-polishing the edge with very light stropping is counter-productive after a point. So my 100 laps with no pressure was not only not helping the edge, but actually hurting it, in that the resultant edge is prone to disappear that much quicker?

    I usually strop in the evening (while the kids are soaking in the tub, lol), and I do about 50 passes with no pressure. Then the following morning without further stropping, I shave (with all the attendant tugging and pulling I mentioned earlier).

    If my understanding of your post is correct, then despite all my research I was still managing to do any number of things wrong. No wonder it was a tug-a-thon...

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