Thread: I'm a Canadian, eh !

Originally Posted by Jakobs

I'm newbie too.
When I first started, I read a lot. And I took the advice of those who are experienced and who act as mentors to folks like me.
I started slow. I started with a shave-ready razor. I visited someone who showed me some basics - shave angle, grip, stropping. I took it easy - and generally speaking I've had and excellent experience so far.

Also I didn't go near hones. At least, not until I had worked downwards - initially just stropping, then a pasted strop, the finally a small finishing hone, and now more recently I've acquired a 3K/8K Naniwa. At each step going slowly and deliberately, trying to understand and to learn the craft. I have a long way to go - but I feel like I'm on the right path, one step at a time.

So, i don't want to sound disparaging, and certainly I mean no disrespect, but if you take some of the advice on here to heart, you may not get frustrated after a few weeks.

• Send your FR (Fred Reynolds) out to get professionally honed

• Learn to strop

• Go over your technique with someone who can help - if you let us know where you are on the east coast (that's pretty broad), maybe there might be a member near you.

Good luck to you.

Hi: I don't mean that I'm not listening to all of the advice given. I do listen, but I am cursed with a brain that always asks "why".

As I said before, I certainly agree that an angle of 20 degreew +- is important, but the spine is part of a straight razor to prevent one from going wrong when you're honing.

That said, how can this be a problem ? . . . . . and if it is the problem, then what can be done about it ?

Originally Posted by Barry2

- - - I will listen to people, but what annoys me is that most people who use straights can tell you what works, but not "why" it works, which is tantamount to saying that they are simply relying on experience. Most people simply don't know why.

As for my 4000/8000 stones, I don't know why you would suggest that they might not be flat; they are virtually brand new with only the little usage of my own.

Theory is a fine thing but goes out the window if you have a razor that is not 100% perfectly made. The spine may be warped/twisted, may not be asymmetrically ground or a number of other flaws that will make it difficult to hone. With experience you begin to recognize if there is a problem and how to compensate by using various different strokes. Even if a razor is in spec with no experience you may not have developed enough of a technique to apply the theory in a practical manner to achieve a properly set bevel. If you can't set the bevel there is no use going up the grit progression, you are in effect just polishing a turd if you do. The frustrating part of learning to hone initially is not being able to apply theory to practice.

If you search in the honing section you will probably find a few threads where the hones as new are not flat/level from the manufacturer. It is pretty common practice to lap new hones before first use to make sure that they are indeed flat/level.

In theory if your razor is in spec and your hone flat/level you will get a constant even contact the entire length of the blade when you do a stroke on the hone. If that is the case and you cannot set a bevel along the whole length of the blade then your technique is lacking somewhere. You have to figure out what you are doing wrong. If your razor is not in spec and/or your hones not flat/level you are just compounding the problem of not being able to set a proper bevel.

Bob

Originally Posted by Barry2

Hi: I don't mean that I'm not listening to all of the advice given. I do listen, but I am cursed with a brain that always asks "why".

Perhaps you're cursed with a bad memory and poor reading comprehension skills....sometimes you have to take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth, and simply do whats been explained to you, answer simple questions with simple answers, because obviously, you haven't made much, if any, progress these last two years have you?

Most hones will not come true flat from the factory. A razors angle is about 17 degrees not 20+ that is for knives. If you are not getting the bevel to meet by just the slightest bit by bad technique or uneven hones etc it won't shave properly no matter how high of a grit you go. I started honing and luckily had someone to check my work. Still took many trys even with them coaching me to get it right and ask almost anyone here who hones sometimes you think you have it only to find you don't and you will go back to the bevel again. Put plainly the bevel is everything if you don't have it dont bother continuing till you do and even then while learning you can stuff it with 1 bad stroke.

Originally Posted by BobH

Theory is a fine thing but goes out the window if you have a razor that is not 100% perfectly made. The spine may be warped/twisted, may not be asymmetrically ground or a number of other flaws that will make it difficult to hone. With experience you begin to recognize if there is a problem and how to compensate by using various different strokes. Even if a razor is in spec with no experience you may not have developed enough of a technique to apply the theory in a practical manner to achieve a properly set bevel. If you can't set the bevel there is no use going up the grit progression, you are in effect just polishing a turd if you do. The frustrating part of learning to hone initially is not being able to apply theory to practice.

If you search in the honing section you will probably find a few threads where the hones as new are not flat/level from the manufacturer. It is pretty common practice to lap new hones before first use to make sure that they are indeed flat/level.

In theory if your razor is in spec and your hone flat/level you will get a constant even contact the entire length of the blade when you do a stroke on the hone. If that is the case and you cannot set a bevel along the whole length of the blade then your technique is lacking somewhere. You have to figure out what you are doing wrong. If your razor is not in spec and/or your hones not flat/level you are just compounding the problem of not being able to set a proper bevel.

Bob

Hmmmm, sounds reasonable, but if I can't be sure that an unused razor and/or an unused hone is in perfect condition, I am not willing to go any farther with it. I could be in for quite a bit more investment. Afterall, if you can't trust the manufacturers to give you a quality piece of equipment, we the consumer are at their mercy, having to spend and spend and spend in order to determine if their gear is as it should be. No way. At least, if I stick to the safety razors, I have full confidence that I am getting a quality product, even if pricey.

Seventeen degrees ? - - Maybe so, but who says that 20 degrees won't sharpen. I have never heard of anyone who goes around with measuring equipment. I mean that is nothing more than speculation.

Hey Barry, the way to be sure your equipment is in perfect condition is to maintain it as such.
Every hone, new or old needs to be lapped flat and true at the beginning of it's useful life and throughout as used.
The mfgr warrants their grit is in line with the industry standards, but it is the craftsman, or end user that needs to maintain it as such.
New lathe's need to be levelled, new machinery commissioned, new cars or horses 'broken in'.
Razors are no different. Straights need more attention to slight details than any other form of shaving I am familiar with and it is not for everyone.
Sounds like you need more convincing than the folks on here can muster to try some of the basics.
I wish you good luck and good shaving with your DE's, which I too use when in a hurry.
Cheers.

Originally Posted by Barry2

Seventeen degrees ? - - Maybe so, but who says that 20 degrees won't sharpen. I have never heard of anyone who goes around with measuring equipment. I mean that is nothing more than speculation.

I'm outta here, gots to stop feeding the trolls.

Bob

I pulled my comment thinking I was being to harsh. I was wrong, you just can't fix stupid.

Just go buy gilette Barry.

Have you thought about restoring skateboards or something? Maybe origami, seeing as you take direction so well.

- - - I will be trying again, but what I have so far is that the bevel is not correct. If one doesn't ask, you can't learn. One has to ask hard questions. Nobody benefits by believing whatever comes down the pike.

If you have something to add, go ahead but without the invective. Copernicus was thought to be nuts with his theories too, but guess what he was right !