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  1. #1
    Just one more lap... FloorPizza's Avatar
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    Default My latest weird suggestion

    Buy a shavette. Yup, a shavette. I'm certainly not saying you should replace your straight with a shavette, but merely add it to your rotation. There's several reasons why this noob thinks other noobs (and maybe even seasoned pros) should have a shavette:

    1. Shavette blades are SHARP! Damn sharp. Unfortunately, they are sooo sharp that many will feel like they are overly harsh. Which is actually an advantage.

    2. The overly harsh/sharp blade makes you concentrate (your undivided attention, really) on your technique. Don't use any pressure with a shavette, or you'll bleed. Make sure the *edge* is totally flat on your face at all times, or you'll bleed. Don't do anything wrong regarding your technique, or you'll bleed. Don't use too high of a blade angle, or you'll remove too much skin, which makes for killer razor burn. Shavettes really make you concentrate on your technique. I've found that I've gotten sloppy with my technique. A few shaves with a shavette will get you back in line in a hurry.

    3. They make for a great comparison as to how sharp your regular straights are. They will also give you a great appreciation for the fine work of our honemeisters, as well as give you a target to shoot for. You may not realize exactly how not-sharp your straights are until you either: A. Get a straight sharpened by a honemeister, or B. Buy a shavette to compare them to.

    The two honemeisters I have used so far have hit a very small target. As sharpness goes up, so does "harshness". At the shavette level of sharpness, the harshness is too much. Both honemeisters I've used have been able to get the perfect level of sharpness/harshness. Just slightly below a shavette, but not so dull as to pull. I'm getting to the point where I can hit that target more consistently, but then again, I hone * a lot*.

    The dulling of a straight razor is a slow process. (duh). Often times, it seems like I don't even realize how dull a straight is until I compare it to a shavette. Like today.... using my Lynn honed blade for half a face, then a shavette for the other half. I didn't really realize how much of the edge was gone from my Lynn honed blade until a pass with the shavette made me realize that the straight was pulling like crazy. Silly me didn't even realize it. For those of you guys that don't hone, having a shavette will really let you know when it's time to send your blade off for honing.

    When used with good technique, shavettes are capable of giving a comfortable shave. If you're bleeding or burned, it means you need to adjust something.

    A couple things about buying a shavette... I would recommend getting a shavette that uses long blades. My shavette uses Derby standard DE blades that are broken in half at the factory. This gives you a very short edge. Too short, really. It is much harder to use a short blade that has two spike points than a longer blade with only one. I believe that Classic Shaving carries a shavette that uses custom blades. They are more expensive, but the blades are also longer, and I believe they are only spiked at one end. To me, this seems like it would be much easier to learn, and not so quick to judge you on anything less than perfect technique.

    Now please excuse me while I go grab my styptic pencil. The shavette was incredibly critical of my technique today.

  2. #2
    Coticule researcher
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    Floorpizza,

    I'm afraid we're going to disagree on this one.
    Your premise almost seems to be that you have to shave with the sharpest edge possible. While that may be an option, it is certainly not the only possible path for the traditional shaver.
    It is tempting, once you start honing your own blades, to become completely obsessed with sharpness. I have been there. But being a sharper shaver doesn't turn you into a better shaver. As a matter of fact, you'd be surprised with how "unsharp" a blade can still shave fine and comfortable in experienced hands.
    You talk about zero pressure, but I tell you that exactly controlled pressured is the true trademark of shave artists such as Williheuser, that we al saw on that awesome shaving video http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...ing-video.html
    By the way, Willi says he hones his razor once a year on "a stone, a fine one". Now I'm not saying we should all be shaving like this one example, but it did put certain things into perspective for me.
    I often assess razors for sharpness, both for honing experiments and because I offer a razor assessment service together with my honing. For a long time I have thought that sharper equaled closer, and that sharper edges would resolve my smoothness issues with a few stubborn patches on my neck. The most important lesson I have learned from shaving with so many different edges, is that this is a wrong assumption.
    My friend Kris, a passionate straight shaver, took a different route than I have: while I was struggling with improving my honing results, he just sticked with shaving with the basic edge he can easily reproduce. He became a master on shaving with that edge. While I was more occupied with keenness and may have become the better honer of us two, he surely is the better shaver, simply because he gave it his undivided attention. Neither of us needs DE-keenness to have a smooth shave. But if you are going to calibrate you shaving technique with the behavior of a DE-blade in a Shavette, it won't be long before you need that standard. It is a self-fulfilling premise.

    When my dad learned me how to drive a car, he took me to an up-hill road, made me halt the car with running engine and then asked me to proceed again (everybody drives hand shifted in Belgium). I couldn't do it, and my father said it was far more difficult to drive slowly than to drive hard, before he showed how it could be done with balancing the clutch pedal. I always remembered that lesson.
    Now, can you put a medium sharp razor on the corner of your chin, just behind a few stubborn whiskers and start an ATG shaving stroke, without hurting or nicking yourself and leave a completely smooth patch?

    Floorpizza, please don't take this as a sign of disrespect. I was on the same page as you about a year ago.

    Kind regards,
    Bart.
    Last edited by Bart; 03-02-2009 at 11:48 PM.

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  4. #3
    Just one more lap... FloorPizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloorPizza View Post
    At the shavette level of sharpness, the harshness is too much. Both honemeisters I've used have been able to get the perfect level of sharpness/harshness. Just slightly below a shavette, but not so dull as to pull.
    Quoted for emphasis. Believe it or not, I think we're actually agreeing on this one. There *is* a point of too sharp, and I feel that shavette blades *are* too sharp, as quoted above. It's that "small target" I referred to: Not so sharp as to feel harsh like a shavette, but not too dull to pull, either. *That* is the level of sharpness I like.

    And I don't ever take any disrespect from your posts, Bart. We're here to discuss, learn, and see opposing points of view.

  5. #4
    Just one more lap... FloorPizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    Now, can you put a medium sharp razor on the corner of your chin, just behind a few stubborn whiskers and start an ATG shaving stroke, without hurting or nicking yourself and leave a completely smooth patch?
    Not even at gun point.

  6. #5
    The Hurdy Gurdy Man thebigspendur's Avatar
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    Sorry but your trying to sell an auto-loader at a convention of wheel gun freaks.

    Its not about the sharpness. There are many devices you can use to shave. We use straights because we like em. Some like feathers and some like DE's and some like injectors and some like electrics and all have their reasons. You use what makes you happy.

    For me I see no reason to use a feather type. I get BBS and it lasts all day. I doubt I will see any further improvement with a disposable.
    No matter how many men you kill you can't kill your successor-Emperor Nero

  7. #6
    Dapper Dandy Quick Orange's Avatar
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    I think it's a good idea for the newbies, if only for the reason that your focus is entirely on your technique, both because you're new and it's as sharp as sharp gets. Once you've got it down, the move to a real straight couldn't be easier. Besides, the cost of a shavette is negligible if you account for the amount of times you'll send out your brand new straight that you nicked on the sink/counter/etc.

  8. #7
    Senior Member AusTexShaver's Avatar
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    I'm afraid I'm with Bart on this one...but I'll take it a step further and say I DON'T recommend a shavette for a newbie.

    They are so sharp they're dangerous and while you might think they improve your technique in most cases they hinder the learning process of shaving with a "normally sharp" straight because all you're focused on is keeping the bleeding to a minimum.

  9. #8
    Super Shaver xman's Avatar
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    Question You want me to what?

    Quote Originally Posted by FloorPizza View Post
    Buy a shavette.
    Oh really?

    Quote Originally Posted by FloorPizza View Post
    Yup, ... Shavette blades are SHARP! ... overly harsh. Which is actually an advantage.
    How's that?

    Quote Originally Posted by FloorPizza View Post
    ... makes you concentrate (your undivided attention, really) on your technique.
    I can do that on my own. I call it self discipline. I don't think I'm the only one with this power.

    Quote Originally Posted by FloorPizza View Post
    Don't use any pressure ... or you'll bleed. Make sure ... or you'll bleed. Don't ..., or you'll bleed. ... remove too much skin, ... razor burn.
    Not a very good pitch, son. As a rebuttal I think I'm gonna stick with the, "Right tool for the right job" defense.

    X

  10. #9
    Senior Member kevint's Avatar
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    I have been shaved by shavette before, but I have never had one to examine..

    What factors are considered in labeling them as sharper than a straight. Is it mostly bevel angle and being so thin? I admit to a John Henry complex about being beaten by a machine process especially on my dear to heart -sharpening. That's why i hate that darn How It's Made show

    Does the harshness remain after being stropped?

    I've had those times when honing along, it's all clockwork ordinary so one would expect a good result. Straight off the hone it acts sharp but shaves harshly. When I check it out on RS miniscope, there is always something wrong. That is a crappy little microscope; but you can see a lot. With different angles and lighting some things are hard to say what they are. I know.

    What I think I can see is the light reflecting off the bur.(?) Sometimes continuous, or intermittent , and sometimes I think i see the same "streak" of light on both sides. It's all in how you orient the blade and the degree of dependence on the internal light source

    In bright light with the blade positioned to get the clearest view and full magnification, the edge appears rather smooth, straight and crisp.

    And right off the hone can feel "harsh" . With a few strap laps it is dandy.

    The other kind of harsh I know, like the worst shave I ever lived through; The chippy Tornblom I wrote about in my honing only thread. (2 goals) Very sharp and chipped (teeny tiny) is kinda like broken wire edge. ( a wire can be very small, it need not be something you can pull off with your fingernail) Both shave nasty.

    Not knowing any better, judging the way the blade feels like it breaks down mid shave, I would label shavettes, bur sharp, not razor sharp. Bur sharp is not really sharp


    On the chin patch- only if it is medium sharp enough

  11. #10
    Newbie for life! jmueller8's Avatar
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    Ah my friend; you are nuts!

    I got my first shave by a barber who use a shavette and had to chance the blades twice. That thing SUCKED so badly that when I came home (still bleeding from about 15 different spots) I had to shave again because it was so uneven and was driving me absolutely nuts.

    I'd rather take an endoscope in the bum than ever use or have one of those things used on me again!

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