Thread: Tam O' Shanter - 'Scotch Hone' close ups

I know this thread was started some time ago, but FYI, the unidentified stone pictured in post number 21 is the stone that comes from the Enterkine Quarry, Tarbolton Parish. These were an early competitor with the Dalmore mine, quarrying a very hard, baked Mudstone which was sold as Ayrshire Hone. As a Mudstone it should have a very fine grit, but in Ayrshire Honestones Tucker offers contradictory opinion on their quality. Tucker himself states that they are of a lower quality than the Dalmore stones, but includes in the appendix a quote which describes them as being of "excellent quality."

Regards,
Alex

Am curious is Tucker the guy that owns the Quarry ?
This is now killing me ... I'm 33miles from Tarbolton ( google maps > Largs Ayrsire to Tarbolton Ayrshire ) same district ... I gotta get more info and visit this old gent if he'll let me .. I'd never forgive myself If I never .. I know I've mentioned it a few times but I've never had enough info ..

cheers ... Garry

Originally Posted by Garry

Am curious is Tucker the guy that owns the Quarry ?
This is now killing me ... I'm 33miles from Tarbolton ( google maps > Largs Ayrsire to Tarbolton Ayrshire ) same district ... I gotta get more info and visit this old gent if he'll let me .. I'd never forgive myself If I never .. I know I've mentioned it a few times but I've never had enough info ..

cheers ... Garry

Tucker is D. Gordon Tucker, the author of the book (actually it's more a pamphlet,) Ayrshire Honestones published by the Ayrshire Archaeological & Natural History Society. Unless it's changed hands very recently, I think that's it's still the Montgomerie family who run the Dalmore business; although I don't know the Christian name of whoever's in charge now. Tucker doesn't offer any evidence to support his claim that these stones are inferior.

The Enterkine Quarry was worked from at least 1815, after the Smith family who sold the stone from Enterkine, were displaced from the Dalmore Quarry. They were in business for roughly 100 years. If you can find a copy of the 1966 Geological Survey Map of the UK the quarry is located at NS421240. It may have been in use before the Smith family began to retail the stone as Tucker suggests that a quarry mentioned in the "General View of the Agriculture of the County of Ayr in 1811 may be the same one. "Hones, or whetstones of an excellent quality, are found at Gadgirth, and many thousands of them are dug up and sold."

Kindest regards,
Alex

Originally Posted by A_S

the Christian name of whoever's in charge now
Alex

It's Keith

Originally Posted by A_S

I know this thread was started some time ago, but FYI, the unidentified stone pictured in post number 21 is the stone that comes from the Enterkine Quarry, Tarbolton Parish. These were an early competitor with the Dalmore mine, quarrying a very hard, baked Mudstone which was sold as Ayrshire Hone. As a Mudstone it should have a very fine grit, but in Ayrshire Honestones Tucker offers contradictory opinion on their quality. Tucker himself states that they are of a lower quality than the Dalmore stones, but includes in the appendix a quote which describes them as being of "excellent quality."

Regards,
Alex

I bought that stone from Jwoods and it is a darn good Tam. Has the speckles and is especially good on sharpening pocket knives IME.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I bought that stone from Jwoods and it is a darn good Tam. Has the speckles and is especially good on sharpening pocket knives IME.

Hi Jimmy,
Does the box give any indication to the date of manufacture for this stone? I've never seen a Tam without the company name and associated trademarks on the box (apart from the ones in the Mauchline boxes). The reason I ask, is because I'm trying to find out if the stone from Troon Harbour, which is described as being very similiar in appearance to the Dalmore Hone, was ever used to make hones. Maybe a TOS-a-like without the trademarks comes from there.

Also, how visible are the speckles? I noted that the original owner said there were no speckles, but you find that there are. There used to be a variant of the Tam, called the White TOS and this is a pale grey/ off-white colour, so it could be one of those maybe.

Kindest regards,
Alex

Originally Posted by dylandog

OK, I've dug around with Google books and it looks like I didn't hallucinate this. What follows is the text of a paid notice John C. Montgomerie (the owner of the company at the time) took out in "Kelly's Directory of the Leather Trades" in 1885:

"IMPORTANT CHANGE OF NAME.
The name of the celebrated qualities of Hone Stone produced from the “Water of Ayr Stone Quarry and Hone Works,” and esteemed and known in the market as “Water of Ayr Stone,” “Snake Stone,” and “Scotch Hone,” and exclusively supplied by me and my predecessors for about 100 years past, is now changed to the distinctive name “TAM O’SHANTER” Hone or Stone, and some of the grades of quality suited for special purposes will be known as “DALMORE HONE,” “MONTGOMERIESTONE HONE,” and “SOUTAR JOHNNY HONE.” Every Stone will bear a Label or Stamp with one or other of these names, and the public are earnestly requested to ask for it accordingly, as only the very inferior sorts and those hitherto rejected at the Quarry will now be sent out by me as “Water of Ayr Stone” or “Snake Stone.”
JOHN C. MONTGOMERIE, “The Tam O’Shanter” Hone Works, Dalmore, Tarblton Station, R.S.O. Ayrshire"

Of the new names, apparently only "Dalmore" stuck. And in due course "Water of Ayr Stone," far from designating rejects and seconds sold presumably at a discount, came instead to designate the very finest of the Scotch hones. I wonder if there are any Montgomeriestone's or Soutar Johnny's out there to be found. Soutar Johnny by the way was another character in the "Tam O'Shanter" poem by Robert Burns.

Earlier in this thread there was a photo of a "Fine Tam O'Shanter Scotch Hone" whose label mentioned winning Gold Medals at the London International Exhibition in 1885 and at the Mining Exhibition in 1890. Given that the "Water of Ayr" was renamed to TOS in 1885, according to this other previous post, Is it reasonable to conclude that a Tam O'Shanter in a Smith box whose label only mentions the 1885 exhibit can be dated between 1885 and 1890 and is, in fact, a genuine Water of Ayr hone?

Originally Posted by MarkinLondon

Earlier in this thread there was a photo of a "Fine Tam O'Shanter Scotch Hone" whose label mentioned winning Gold Medals at the London International Exhibition in 1885 and at the Mining Exhibition in 1890. Given that the "Water of Ayr" was renamed to TOS in 1885, according to this other previous post, Is it reasonable to conclude that a Tam O'Shanter in a Smith box whose label only mentions the 1885 exhibit can be dated between 1885 and 1890 and is, in fact, a genuine Water of Ayr hone?

There is confusion about exactly what a 'Water of Ayr' hone is..... AFAIC anyway ...... The only copy I've managed to acquire is a small one, 4x1x1/4", glued to a paddle with a slip case that is marked Water Of Ayr Penknife Hone. The interesting thing about this one is that it is black... sort of..... but does have the speckles characteristic of the Tam 'O Shanter. There is a photo of a beautiful WOA here in this archived thread. I've sent a PM or two to the OP with no luck in getting a reply. Whether it also has the speckles is unknown to me.

Here are a couple of photos of my little WOA next to a vintage Tam. The Tam was in a paddle but I soaked it to get it off of the wood, like an idiot, and cut a piece off to use for a slurry stone. I've misplaced the box but it is somewhere in the house and if I ever find it I will answer Alex's question from the earlier post.

Three Tam O'Shanters, the large one on the bottom a White, and two Water of Ayrs, the leftmost one backed with a White TOS:

If anybody is interested in some more history of the "Water of Ayr and Tam o Shanter Hone Works"....

you should visit the following site with really great Information about the "Works" in Pictures......

Site Record for Dalmore Mill, Water Of Ayr And Tam O'shanter Hone Works Heron MillDigital_images Digital_images
http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/201928/photographs/dalmore+water+